New Social Art School Projects - Tillydrone Eva
Skip Navigation
Suzanne Lacy explaining...
Eva artist - interviewed by artist Suzanne Lacy
I’m me and Suzanne is an artist from America. She has worked with public arts projects and performances since the seventies. She works a lot with women, often hundreds in one performance piece. She works with the On The Edge research team at Gray’s School of Art. When I first moved to Tillydrone I was struggling with life and work and everything. Suzanne helped me get back on my feet. In a very special way she has played a part in this artist residency. We both thought it was a good idea that she interviewed me for this book. I call her my mentor. I don’t know how old she is but I’m 40.
At first I didn’t actually want to apply for the residency. I was kind of worn out from the book project about street begging I did last year. But, you know, the money was good, it came with a flat and I needed somewhere to stay. So I went for it. It’s a six months project but I get to stay in the flat for an extra month before the next artist moves in.
........
In Tillydrone it’s mainly council houses, but there are privately owned houses as well. Statistically Tillydrone has got high rates of unemployment, crime - including drugs possession, which is quite high – assaults, including domestic violence, vandalism and anti social behaviour. Those rates are quite high. And there’s that bad reputation. My last taxi driver said, ‘Oh, the Bronx!’ Everybody knows it. Tillydrone is bad. I mean people who don’t live there, think they know! Tillydrone is only interesting when something bad happens. And the press focuses on that. But I would tell you that there’s a community spirit and people are real here. There’s not so much fake. People are what they are. And I like that.
........
I gave it a thought. I’ve been in Aberdeen four years now and I’ve worked with people on the streets and I know about issues like homelessness, drug addiction, mental illness and things like that. I met a lot of people who were living in Tillydrone, or lived here in the past or were likely to live here in the future. I’m interested and I happen to like people who somehow live outside of society. So I thought that I would have a lot of understanding for some of the issues in Tillydrone. And I knew that I would probably like living here.
........
Where do you start and what can you actually do within six months? I do feel a lot of responsibility. I’m given public money and I want to do as best as I can. At the same time I want to keep my integrity as an artist. I have a problem working with groups of people, like a lot of community artists do. Maybe it can be an advantage because people are comfortable in their group. But very often people are grouped because they have issues. I don’t want to work with people within some sort of frame. I’m probably more of a free spirit and I like being one to one with people. And I can do it because I have this feeling of responsibility towards the people. Not the employers. I know I got the residency because I have a good track record working with social issues. And I think they believed that I would deliver. But at some point I thought that I couldn’t…
........
Yeah I got overwhelmed and I started asking myself what right I had to be here? I’m a foreigner from a nice middleclass background and I’ve never lived in a council house. Ever. I feel very privileged compared to a lot of people who live here. But see, I’ve got this strong empathy for people who are considered to be the lowest of the low in society, for example drug addicts. I know a lot about that from the past, way before I came to Aberdeen. I know people and I like them. But I realise that many people also find it difficult living next door to people with chaotic lifestyles, as they call it here. And it’s not cool when people don’t care about their surroundings just because they have their own problems. It’s especially bad if children are involved. Normally I never even try pretending to be objective. I take a stand, personally and politically. That’s how I always work. But here I have to understand things from various perspectives. It’s too complex to just focus on the one side, like I did with for example the street beggars in the city centre.
........
Tillydrone is a very diverse community as people say in the interviews. And it is very true. You’ve got a broad spectrum of society here. Obviously you don’t have the really big houses and really rich people. It is mainly a working class place, but you’ve got loads of people with good jobs, houses and cars. And then you’ve got the other end of the scale, people with no education, people who’ve been out of work for a long time and people who’ve got serious problems. I felt that I’m here to serve the community somehow, even though I also know that you cannot do much in six months. I have great respect for the people who work in the community projects. They know the people. They are working within certain restrictions obviously, but they are doing the best they can.
........
In my initial proposal I said I would like to paint a whole house. It could be a big project with the implications of getting permission, getting people involved and doing the work. But I realised early on that some people didn’t really understand why I would want to do such a thing. It’s quite funny. It’s so grey in Aberdeen, but it’s almost like people think that this is the colour of the place. To me it’s sad and sometimes depressing. But I pretty soon lost interest in the idea anyway. Well, I moved in and spent some time just getting settled and I went to visit various community projects. Meeting people here and there, going shopping and just trying to live a life. Then I discovered the No Ball Games signs. I mean, you gotta be blind not to notice! Then what do you do? You go and photograph them and that’s an opportunity to count them. I couldn’t believe how many there were. And I wanted to do something with these signs. I had this thing with love hearts and my friend, Claudia, said that I should do something for Valentine’s Day. I thought it was a brilliant idea. I had very short time, so I just did it without too much planning. That was it. I had done it and it was out there. I got a lot of positive response; people seemed to like it a lot. I thought the whole thing about love and care would be nice to work with. It’s broad but it’s also very simple. I like that. For a while I thought that I would maybe make a short film but I never really had an idea. Nothing came to me. But I’m comfortable making books, it’s a good thing to do, it’s interesting and people like being in books.
........
All the women in the book I met in a kind of natural way, in everyday life. First of all I liked them all immediately. I’ve met a lot of other people of course, but they were the ones. They were all forthcoming and interesting and had something to offer me, whether it was kindness or information, a good chat or a laugh. But I wasn’t thinking about interviewing when I first met them. Then I decided to make the book and I wrote down a list of people to speak to and they were all on that list. Naturally.
........
I had a really hard time in the first four months in Tillydrone. I felt bad about myself, I felt bad about doing the project because ideas weren’t coming to me. I think I was depressed. So I met these women - it’s not really a conscious choice or a political decision or anything - it just happened to be them that I felt really comfortable with. I think I just needed to speak to some women.
........
It didn’t start right when I moved in. At first it was a nice project just to create a new home. And, because I don’t own any furniture, I went to charity shops and got everything. I really liked living here and meeting people. But it was January, cold and nasty, the trees were naked and it’s grey and dark. It’s a hard time of the year anyway. Then I started doing a bit of research about the area, reading about the regeneration plans and I got a report of statistics of the area. Two things started happening; on a personal level, I knew that the home I was creating wasn’t to last. I was gonna be out of here again, soon. I’ve lived in five different places the last four years, so I miss a home. Then there were all these issues that came out through reading and speaking to people. I got overwhelmed and it made me feel really weak. And everything was open. I could do anything I wanted, but I didn’t know what I wanted. It’s the hardest time I’ve ever gone through in my life. It’s good that I can sit here now and feel that I got over it. At some point there, I thought I’d lost it. I couldn’t come up with anything. No energy. Loneliness. Even though there would be other people, sitting in other flats, feeling just the same, I didn’t know these people. Fear. Because you don’t really know what’s happening with you and you don’t know what to do to get better. Nothing really helps. It gave me a total understanding of how people get addicted to various substances. Because it can help you to deal with feeling horrible, at least for a little while.
........
This whole thing about being 40 and single and thinking that I could still have a baby if I wanted, that’s in the back of my mind. I met some of the young mums partly because of that I think. But it was difficult. They were shy, young women. I thought they would think that I don’t look like somebody that needs somebody else to comfort me, right? I’m much older, I’m an artist working in the community and I’m well paid. Nothing’s wrong with me, eh?
........
Way in the beginning I thought I wanted to work with a group of kids. But that didn’t work either. I was in one place for two hours and the kids were so hyper, I thought I was never gonna get through to them. I gave up, just totally gave up and never went back. But Bobbi came to me. She’s the only one who actually came to me with a specific idea. She said she wanted to paint the No Ball Games signs pink. I thought it was amazing and I loved the idea. That, to me, made us somehow related.
........
I don’t think I really understand what regeneration means. But in this case it’s about tearing down existing buildings and building new ones. Tillydrone is probably the area where they are planning the most dramatic changes. But, within the regeneration plans it doesn’t really say anything about the social issues and the problems people have. Maybe because it’s too complex for the planners - or too expensive. Well, this is only my belief and I don’t have any hard proof. But areas like Tillydrone are way under-prioritised. In general people with lower educations, lower incomes, unemployed or unfortunate, seem to think they don’t deserve any better. People put up with things and councils get away with neglecting whole areas. I see that very clearly. I’m from Denmark where there is a history of a social democratic system. This very old-fashioned class system in the UK is so obvious. I know that’s easy for me to say. People who grow up here are used to that system and maybe don’t question it as I do. But if you’re born in a poor area you’re disadvantaged from the start.
........
15 years ago I worked in a drug rehab in Norway. It’s residential and people stay at least one year and often up to three years and afterwards stay connected to a support system. It’s paid by government and local councils, so anybody can come into that. And they have quite high success rates because they realise that it takes a long time for people to be rehabilitated. Here people go to rehab for six months. If they are lucky! They have to go to Wales or Glasgow because there is nothing in Aberdeen. People are on waiting lists for years unless they can pay themselves. Then they come back six months later and start using again. Very few make it. The support system isn’t good enough. Drug rehab is expensive. But up in Norway, back then, they did some research and found out that it was actually more expensive to have people in prison. Quite interesting, when you look at the over populated prisons, full of people with short-term drug related crime sentences. People could be helped to change their lives instead. It’s outrageous when you think about it.
........
It’s lonely anyway in Aberdeen, being an artist. You’re so far removed from an arts community. So when you’re in Tillydrone, you can at least say that this is for real. I would definitely live here if I wanted to stay in Aberdeen any longer. I think Tillydrone is a great place to live and work. I don’t know enough about the other artists who are coming. But, for me, it’s very important to get to know the people. It’s just too short time.
........
My absolute priority is that the book is for the people who live here. But these interviews can be read by anybody in the whole world, whoever gets a hold of the book. I’m proud that I’m in a position to make a book and print 1500 copies to give away to people. And I think that every single one of the women in this book is proud of being part of it. And everything I have learned here I will take with me on a personal level and in my career as an artist. This is me as a person and I use that in my art and it pretty simply comes down to that.
........
The love heart thing on Valentine’s Day, hey, anybody could do that. It’s just about getting the idea. Look at Bobbi, she had an idea. Then just do it, don’t start asking for permission. I like that. I’m in a position where I can say that to people. I hope that I can be of some inspiration. And I like the idea that the book will live on. It can maybe bring some light and positive energy about. There is a future and people do believe in Tillydrone. Like Lorna and Pamela say, let’s get on with it! I can only hope, can I not?
........
Recorded 16th May 2007
Eva, working on something...